Content material Individuals: Analysis, Greek Mythology and The Energy of Podcasts

On Content material Individuals, Meredith Farley interviews inventive professionals and leaders to get a behind-the-scenes have a look at their profession experiences and switch that into actionable recommendation for listeners. Tune in to listen to from specialists in varied media, and get impressed to search out contentment in your personal inventive profession.

Episode #12 Abstract

Liv Albert is the creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!” She chats with Meredith Farley on this episode about analysis, studying, Greek mythology, podcasting, the facility of an important story and extra. Hear alongside to search out inspiration in your personal inventive endeavors.

Content material Individuals: Analysis, Greek Mythology and The Energy of Podcasts

On this episode of Content material Individuals, I chat with Liv Albert, creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!”. Along with her diploma in English Literature & Classics, she tells historic tales in a enjoyable, witty method. She not solely writes, produces and hosts her podcast, however she’s additionally an creator of two Greek mythology books.

Liv fell in love with Greek mythology round seventh grade, when she noticed a ‘90’s miniseries on “The Odyssey.” Since then, she’s explored historic sources and honed her analysis abilities to carry these timeless tales to life.

“Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!” began out as a enjoyable concept, however Liv rapidly realized that it had a lot extra to supply — each to her listeners and her life.

Listed below are just a few extra issues we speak about in between all of the myths and magic:

  • The significance of giving your self time to apply and enhance.
  • Dealing with feedback and not-so-constructive criticism.
  • Discovering and understanding tales that matter.

View on Zencastr

Thanks for listening!

– Meredith Farley, Host of Content material Individuals

Extra Content material for Content material Individuals

Liv’s podcast: Try “Let’s Talk About Myths, Baby!

Liv’s ebook: Get your intro to the greats in “Greek Mythology: The Gods, Goddesses, and Heroes Handbook.”

Brafton: We will not be mythological Greek heroes, however we are advertising and marketing heroes. Discover out why in our digital advertising and marketing publication. 

Meredith’s publication: Try Meredith’s newsletter (additionally referred to as Content material Individuals).

Podcast Transcript:

Meredith: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Content material Individuals. Tune in to listen to from creatives, leaders, and specialists in varied media. I’m your host, Meredith Farley.

Ian: And I’m the present’s producer, Ian Servin.

Meredith: Hey, Ian.

Right this moment, we talked to Liv Albert. Liv’s the creator, host, and producer of the extremely popular Greek and Roman mythology podcast, Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child. I like Liv’s present. I used to be actually glad to speak to her. Should you’re not acquainted with it, it’s a twice weekly podcast wherein Liv dives deep into the main points of historic Greek and Roman myths and the historical past that surrounded them. She brings a extremely cool perspective, plenty of humor, sarcasm, and a contemporary lens to those tales. And she or he’s constructed up a extremely enormous listener face. The present will get thousands and thousands of downloads per 12 months. We talked to Liv concerning the origins of the present and what she’s discovered constructing such a profitable podcast from the bottom up.

Ian: Clearly, podcasts have been round for some time, however I really feel like so many different issues, they actually blew up throughout the pandemic. So it was tremendous cool to speak to somebody who actually constructed a present from the bottom up and grew an viewers and a group round it. Podcasts are clearly an excellent attention-grabbing format for content material. And with the entire consideration it’s been getting recently, it’s one thing that lots of people are . And Liv had so many nice issues to say, not nearly what makes a podcast particular, but additionally what makes good content material and how one can take your personal ardour and enthusiasm to make one thing that’s going to attach with an viewers.

Meredith: Yeah, it was nice to listen to from her on that. So with out additional ado, we hope you prefer it. Right here’s our convo.

Meredith: Thanks a lot for becoming a member of content material individuals and being on this episode.

Liv: Thanks a lot for having me. It’s very good.

Meredith: I’m so excited. I do know we had been simply chatting a second in the past about this, however I’ve been a very long time listener of your podcast. My good friend Brianna really turned me on to let’s speak about myths, child. And she or he was really additionally on a later episode of this podcast.

So for listeners who aren’t acquainted with you, might you share slightly bit about who you’re and what your podcast is about?

Liv: Yeah, so I’m Liv Albert. I created and host the podcast, let’s speak about myths, child, which is a factor I nonetheless dislike saying in entrance of different individuals and simply the title, not the podcast, clearly. Yeah, I began it about 5 and a half years in the past. I speak about Greek mythology. I retell tales and over the previous few years, I’ve taken to talking with like teachers and specialists and authors and all these completely different unbelievable individuals concerning the historic world and principally each side at this level. I’ll take something if it options the traditional Mediterranean in any respect. That’s simply principally my total life at this level.

Meredith: When did your love of Greek mythology start and what do you assume drew you to it?

Liv: So humorous, I get requested this like actually on a regular basis and I by no means have an important reply as a result of it’s principally that like I’ve liked it since I used to be a child, however I don’t bear in mind like the place that got here from particularly aside from I used to be a baby. I do bear in mind in grade seven and I say grade seven as a result of I’m Canadian. That’ll come out fairly fast.

I had this trainer who not solely taught us Greek mythology, but additionally he had us watch the there’s like this mini collection from the 90s that like I’m of an age the place after I was in grade seven and for him to point out us, it meant that he had like a VHS recording that he needed to roll a TV into the room and play this and we needed to quick ahead the commercials as a result of it was recorded from TV and all that.

However yeah, it was like this mini collection of the Odyssey and that’s all I bear in mind is like having to look at that. I barely bear in mind what’s in it. I simply bear in mind watching that and have or not it’s like if it wasn’t the catalyst, it simply drew me deeper into Greek mythology

Meredith: For positive. I believe we’re of the identical age, so much like the previous recollections. I believe I watched that. What’s the title of the man that’s in it? It’s like Armand.

Liv: Sure, yeah, precisely Armand, one thing in lots and like I don’t bear in mind what components of the odyssey it featured, I simply know, we watched it.

Meredith: Oh my, I yeah, I completely keep in mind that one and I believe that was my intro to Greek mythology as properly, though I didn’t keep it up in the identical method. That’s actually that’s attention-grabbing.

So all proper, myths, I consider it as the unique content material and I’m actually tempted to dive proper into questions on myths as a result of I do know you’re such an skilled, however as a result of this podcast is about inventive work and plenty of creatives are listening, I need to one, acknowledge that you’ve achieved a big success via your content material and two, be sure that as we go, I’m doing my greatest to mine your experiences for actionable recommendation for listeners who additionally may need to create one thing for themselves.

And so first, one factor I’m very interested in is to ask you to share slightly bit concerning the everyday work of me teaming similar to profitable and it might appear to me actually labor and analysis heavy podcast, like what goes into an episode and what’s every week or two in your life usually like?

Liv: Yeah, so first I might advocate to anybody trying to do that to not do it the way in which that I’ve performed it, which is that I’m now incapable of relinquishing management on so many issues. And whereas I do have an assistant now, she principally simply does the stuff that I might have by no means had time to do if I didn’t have her.

So like hiring her simply gave us extra stuff. It didn’t take a lot off of my plate as a result of I’m a large number. However that’s all to say, yeah, it’s extremely labor intensive. I usually simply consistently search for ways in which I could make it simpler on myself and I’ve but to search out them. However principally, I launch two episodes of the podcast each week on Tuesdays. I do what I name a story episode. It’s the place it’s simply me telling tales from Greek mythology. Or on this case proper now, I’m within the midst of this massive historical past collection on Sparta, which is much more analysis intensive in a method that makes me query every part I’ve ever performed. However for the common episodes, for the Greek fantasy episodes, it does require plenty of analysis.

Fortunately, I’m fairly good at analysis now. And one of many issues that’s humorous is I can’t even actually surrender the analysis facet to my assistant as a result of every part I do in analysis, I do like concurrently whereas writing it. So I’ll have eight books open round me, like 10 completely different web sites. And I’m simply studying these items and typing the script as I’m going. And so these episodes all the time have a script. It sounds actually off the cuff plenty of the time, I prefer to assume a minimum of, however it’s fully scripted for essentially the most half. It’s similar to a stream of consciousness scripted. So it nonetheless feels like an individual rambling. However these are like 5 to 6 thousand phrases that I’m writing and researching each week.

After which Friday episodes are both like, I’ll simply learn one thing from the traditional world that’s like a translation that’s within the public area. And thus is like copyright free, or I will likely be talking to 2 teachers, specialists, authors and issues like that. In order that requires me to schedule and report and edit these conversations, which is why I typically do the studying episodes, as a result of they’re significantly simpler. So after I must make my life slightly bit nicer in every week, I’ll do a kind of as a substitute. However usually I don’t as a result of I’ve too many wonderful people who I’ve already recorded with or need to report with. And it simply finally ends up like that. So like I’m recording with any individual tomorrow. And so it, I yeah, it’s plenty of work, principally, if that solutions the query. Nevertheless it’s clearly performed me properly.

Meredith: Yeah, that’s actually attention-grabbing. As you’re speaking, it’s reminding me slightly little bit of possibly like startup founders who’ve created one thing that’s like wholly of them. And even determining methods to in any method divide and delegate feels completely unattainable. So what it feels like is such an attention-grabbing course of.

So you’re researching and writing in actual time. And that’s for the not, however the scripted, however the simply you Tuesday episode. And then you definitely’re additionally coordinating, researching and enhancing the dialog episodes. And that’s taking place in actual time each week. Or do you do a number of forward of time? Like, how do you’re employed that?

Liv: I attempt to do a number of forward of time. However clearly, as a result of they’re so labor intensive, it’s usually not likely doable as a result of there’s solely so many phrases you’ll be able to write in every week. And when one episode is 5 to six,000, additionally they continue to grow. Prefer it was once extra like three to 4,000. And I simply preserve getting wordier and having an excessive amount of to say in each episode. In order that’s partially on me.

However I’m additionally actually acutely aware, like I’ve advertisements in my present and that’s how I pay the payments. However I additionally by no means need the episode so brief that the advertisements are overwhelming. So whereas I used to do what I referred to as mini myths had been like brief, temporary episodes. Now I don’t actually assume that I’ve the power to be that temporary anymore as a result of I’m too obsessive about the entire intricacies within the historic world, like that’s simply include what number of years I’ve been doing this. But in addition I by no means need to launch episodes which might be so brief that the advertisements change into excessive. So it’s all the time like a juggling act with that as properly, which wasn’t actually the query that you simply requested. However yeah, it’s all taking place in actual time for essentially the most half. And I do attempt to batch put together so usually I’ll do this with if I’m doing a studying episode, as a result of I can do these slightly simpler. So if I’m having a day the place I can simply bang out a few of these, I’ll, or if I’ve a bunch of conversations, I attempt to edit them in order that they’re able to go. As an example, like all my Sparta conversations are able to go now. And I’m working extra on the analysis ones as we go. Sorry, my, I’m attempting to not breathe straight into my microphone, however I’m speaking an excessive amount of, my respiration is troubling.

In order that’s principally how I deal with these. My purpose is all the time to have like a minimum of a month ready upfront. However as a result of they’re so labor intensive, and I wrestle with ADHD, that was not an issue till I grew to become full time with the podcast. And now it’s very arduous to do issues upfront as a result of I would like the deadline with a purpose to power my mind to do them. So it turns into, yeah it’s difficult, however that’s all the time a purpose. It’s to work forward.

Meredith: Wow, that’s actually attention-grabbing. I’m listening to the Sparta collection for what it’s price. And I completely like it. It’s so fascinating. And I really feel like whenever you pay attention, you’ll be able to really feel like they really feel like laborers of affection and like a real dedication to you being as thorough and complete and considerate as doable about this. These are actually attention-grabbing ideas. And I’m like, what do you, why do you even use sources? How do you discover your sources for these very advanced and in-depth tales?

Liv: The Sparta ones for one, thanks. I’m glad to listen to individuals are having fun with the Sparta ones. I’ve heard it from just a few individuals and it really, prefer it makes a extremely massive distinction as a result of these are like an entire, like me stepping out of all of my consolation zones and speaking about not solely historical past, however this a part of historical past that I’m not that acquainted with. I did my BA, however I’m 10 years previous now. And what do I bear in mind from it? Not almost sufficient. And so the historical past ones are rather more daunting for me and I’m questioning whether or not I’m simply rambling and sounding like I make any sense. However up to now, so good.

However so for the analysis of the Sparta collection, the one method I used to be capable of do it’s that the assistant that I employed final 12 months, Michaela Smith, is one wonderful, however two, she is learning classics in college. And so she not solely has a brisker grasp on all of this, however she additionally has entry to college publications and college libraries and every part. So fortunately, like the entire analysis, primarily she pulled every part that we may need after which put it into a method by which I might then use it. And we’ve been engaged on the scripts collectively lots in a method that we don’t for the mythology as a result of I, it’s simply me storytelling in the meanwhile. However for these ones, there’s much more she’s been writing a ton primarily based on her personal analysis and information.

After which I’ll go in and make it extra my voice, my humor, all these various things and like flesh it out with what I need to say and make it rather less educational as a result of she’s caught in that headspace, which is actually useful for me. And I’ll simply decide via it and alter what I would like. So for the Sparta one which’s been fully primarily based on her, however in terms of the mythology, like I’ve now spent so a few years doing this, just like the analysis strategies I take advantage of now versus 5 years in the past are unbelievably completely different. So the place I used to only Google issues and see what I might discover and piece stuff collectively or I had one ebook of Greek myths that I used to be doing that and it was like, a retelling ebook, like a ebook, a scholar wrote of Greek myths slightly than the unique sources. And now I’m like, it’s very uncommon that I’ll use something that’s not a major supply like from the traditional world. And when it’s, it’s this two quantity set that I’ve, which is totally ineffective to anybody who’s simply coming at mythology from a pastime standpoint.

And for any individual like me, it’s deeply so useful. It’s referred to as early Greek myths by Timothy Gantz. And it’s like a supply ebook. Principally this educational went via and picked out each reference to each character in each historic supply. And he places all of them collectively and talks about what’s the identical and what’s completely different and what these bizarre issues are and who stated what and when and he usually has sources which might be fragmentary or partially misplaced in a method that it’s usually arduous to search out that as properly. In order that’s fully invaluable. There’s additionally a web site that’s like a lifesaver as a result of it compiles plenty of historic sources as properly. So principally I’ll say I’m fairly acquainted now with the place to search out historic sources. I’ve so many books and so many alternative locations the place I can discover them.

So it’s simply plenty of piercing via 1,000,000 completely different sources attempting to stay to authentic sources or historic sources slightly or, students writing about these sources and it’s fairly wild. However I’ve simply turned it into an artwork at this level and might just about discover something.

Meredith: Yeah, sounds prefer it. Someplace associated to the trailer for the present or a minimum of it was after I first began listening, which was just a few years in the past, you referenced, you stated, Hey guys, like begin at this episode quantity. And I believe the message was one thing to the impact of round this episode is whenever you really feel such as you honed in on methods to inform a narrative and the way we wished the podcast to be.

And one, I discovered that even simply fascinated by it now as somebody who’s performed like 10 episodes of a podcast, I discover that actually comforting as a result of it’s like, yep, you bought to do plenty of these earlier than you actually work out methods to do it. However you’re so good at it. Are you able to inform me slightly bit about what you discovered about storytelling and podcasting from these early days?

Liv: Oh, God, yeah. The factor about podcasts that’s each wonderful and so irritating is that they only stay without end, regardless of whenever you recorded them. Episodes I recorded and put on the market 5 and a half years in the past, individuals are coming to them as in the event that they’re a model new factor they’re listening to for good or unhealthy. It may be troubling. What you’re referencing is definitely the very first episode of the present has a disclaimer up on the prime. It says round this episode, I acquired higher at what I’m doing, I acquired higher at researching, I acquired a greater microphone, blah, blah, blah. And so I do have that on the very starting of the primary episode. And does it persuade individuals?

No, everybody begins with the primary episode. My first episode is all the time the primary downloads of my total present, together with I believe it was about one tenth of my complete downloads for this 12 months, which is sort of a reference. So yeah, like 2022, I had a complete of 400 episodes, clearly not launched in 2022. However by the tip of the 12 months, my present had 400 episodes obtainable within the feed. And out of these 400, like our complete, I acquired one thing over 10 million, I believe downloads final 12 months. And a million of these downloads was my first episode.

Why are you doing this to me? It will get so significantly better. As a result of lots of people cease after the primary one too, or depart me opinions the place they’re like, she’s unhealthy at researching. And I’m like I advised you that I acknowledged it. I’m higher now. It’s nearly like I’ve been doing this for 5 years, and there’s 400 episodes, like possibly the primary 5 aren’t the very best reference factors. Anyway, I really feel very strongly about it. But in addition, they get essentially the most downloads, in order that they’re not getting deleted.

However that’s all to say I began this podcast as a pastime, explicitly, as a result of I used to be actually depressed, and I hated my job. I’d gone via a full blown quarter life disaster and give up my profession that I’d labored every part for and moved throughout the nation dwelling ish, however not dwelling. And so it was similar to I used to be in a deeply messy place, and I used to be tremendous depressed, and lonely, and all I did was take heed to podcasts. And even like we talked about earlier than we began recording, such as you develop these sorts of relationships with the podcasters that you simply take heed to, they usually’re like pals. And that was simply my entire factor. And I began one purely as a result of I used to be like this could possibly be my factor too, like I might simply do that as a approach to move the time to really feel much less depressed, what have you ever.

And that’s 100% why I began the present. And so it was actually piecemeal, it was like, I explicitly keep in mind that in all probability the primary three or 4 episodes, I wrote the script primarily in my cellphone’s notes app whereas I used to be not doing the job that I hated, whereas I used to be sitting in my workplace typing and like I used to be so I used to be studying on like Wikipedia and like different no matter different web sites I might get on my mobile phone, on my cellphone whereas I used to be like additionally writing within the notes app. In order that they had been very simply they had been a stream of consciousness, however in a really completely different method from what I do now. And it was simply thrown collectively and simply no matter got here to me.

And so I believe they’re good. And I don’t assume that they had been unhealthy when it comes to like storytelling, however they weren’t as correct as I would love, as detailed, they glossed over plenty of issues. All of the misogynists on the market who hate my present would say that I discussed the patriarchy an excessive amount of. I didn’t actually change that, however I acquired higher at it.

And I believe it’s only a matter of the extra you’re doing it and the extra sources you get to I believe the episodes the place I made a decision I acquired higher at it was after I began the Iliad. And that’s as a result of I used to be studying the Iliad, whereas earlier than I had been studying like books of Greek myths which might be written by individuals right now, versus the traditional sources. However with the Iliad, I needed to inherently go to the traditional sources and I believe that type of switched one thing for me. And I spotted the worth of being completely or wherever doable, completely with historic sources, and what that did each for my element and accuracy and so many alternative issues.

And so yeah, I believe it’s only a matter of it’s simply apply, proper? It’s simply with podcasts, apply stays within the feed without end. Whereas should you’re writing a novel, you’re going to undergo 10 completely different drafts and nobody’s ever going to see these. However a podcast, particularly whenever you’re not beginning it with an organization backing you with producers with editors with all these various things, such as you’re simply beginning it with nevertheless you’re going to begin it. And yeah, like the primary in all probability 20 episodes of my present or apply that everybody will get to take heed to without end.

Meredith: One million individuals a 12 months take heed to and perpetuate.

Liv: Yeah. I really simply heard from a professor at a college who was like, I simply need to let you recognize that I assigned your first episode to my class they usually actually liked it. And she or he stated all these extremely sort issues. However I used to be like, Oh, God, no, not my first episode. Choose a distinct one. I’m so significantly better now.

Meredith: I ponder, do you assume that okay, do you assume they are surely that unhealthy? Or do you assume you had been, had been you arduous in your set tougher on your self within the early days?

Liv: So I believe unhealthy is the mistaken phrase to make use of when it comes to how I actually really feel. I don’t assume that they’re unhealthy. I simply assume that they’re not illustration of what my present has been for the final three to 4 years. And I’m pleased with what the present is now. I’m pleased with what it was again then too. Nevertheless it was a distinct present. It was leisure. It was similar to, right here’s a enjoyable and quippy fantasy. It’s going to be 20 minutes lengthy. It’s going to be actually floor degree. You’re going to have enjoyable. It’s tremendous.

And I don’t assume there’s something mistaken with that. However what my present is now’s an actual deep dive into the traditional world, the traditional sources, the context, the nuance, the historical past, every part in a method that I like. And I believe lots of people additionally simply favor storytelling. So in all probability these early episodes are greatest for them. However I like every part I’ve discovered and the main points I can go into now and the nuance and the historical past of actually every part like I’m obsessive about that. And so to me, like I’m simply far more proud. And I believe that my present present is simply higher in all of these respects, however it is sort of a choice factor, in all probability greater than something.

Meredith: If you say historic sources I don’t I’m, are you able to clarify precisely what that’s? I don’t know. I actually know.

Liv: That’s honest. Yeah. I’m going to make use of plenty of phrases which might be completely regular for me. So please ask about something. However historic sources, I, so what I imply by that’s the sources that truly come from the traditional world. So I learn them in translation, however they’re from the traditional world. So I’m speaking concerning the Iliad, the Odyssey, Homer’s works, quote unquote Homer, he in all probability wasn’t an actual man. However these are the works that we’ve got his title on. Or the traditional performs, the performs of Euripides and Aeschylus and Sophocles.

These are a few of my favorites to cowl. Euripides is my favourite. He’s the best possible. So these are performs that had been written within the historic world, written within the fifth century BCE carried out within the fifth century. And so they simply survive for us to learn right now. So the comparability between one thing that was written in historic Greece and survives for us to learn in translation, like the choice is say books of Greek fantasy which might be written by individuals within the final 100 years. So Edith Hamilton is essentially the most well-known, I might say. However there are such a lot of, I wrote one, mine is a, is an instance of this, individuals writing concerning the Greek myths, however from our, from now, simply during the last 100 years.

And infrequently what they’re doing is a bunch of various historic sources, they usually’re placing all of it collectively. However usually, they’re doing that, after which they’re inserting their very own narratives and typically biases, just like the ebook that I had that I used to be utilizing on the early days of the podcast, I simply discovered, it’s simply referred to as the Greek myths and prefer it was on sale at a bookstore and I used to be actually broke and doing this only for enjoyable. In order that’s the one I purchased and that’s the one I learn. And I’ve regarded again on components of it now. And it has all of those fully invented issues which might be usually tremendous misogynist, and it presents them as if that’s precisely what was stated within the precise Greek, the traditional sources, the Greek mythology.

Whereas that is completely a person inserting his personal wild insults to ladies which might be like not within the historic sources in any respect. So usually whenever you’re studying these ones, and sadly, they’re essentially the most accessible, they’re essentially the most complete, they’re the simplest method so that you can discover the entire tales similar to an on a regular basis individual accessing them. However they will usually be tremendous inaccurate when it comes to what we do know concerning the historic world. And so they can usually be, as a result of for essentially the most half, every part’s been written by males up till very lately, they will usually be actually misogynistic. And also you don’t know whenever you assume like the traditional world was tremendous misogynistic, however it wasn’t that unhealthy. Like this man may even make it worse, which is saying one thing. Yeah, so it’s like that’s the large distinction and why I’m so particular now the place I’m going to be referring to the traditional sources wherever doable.

Meredith: So you are taking what I understand as a really intentionally intersectional lens when telling and deciphering these myths. And I’m curious if, and also you’re answering it, however a query I got here into this desirous to ask you was, do you assume that these myths initially spring from a patriarchal heterosexual lens? Or is {that a} extra latter day retelling that we’re nonetheless disentangling ourselves from? I don’t know if that’s clear. Principally, I’m questioning, I used to be desirous to ask you should you thought the myths began off as sexist as they appear.

Liv: The primary phrasing or query I believe is even higher. And I fully get it. So I’m completely going to reply that as a result of it’s slightly little bit of each in a method that I believe is actually attention-grabbing. So there’s going to be lots right here. Principally, the traditional sources as we’ve got them now had been completely developed in a patriarchal society. Patriarchal, sure, heterosexual, no, which I believe is attention-grabbing. So the time wherein these items like say the Iliad and the Odyssey, I’m simply going to make use of these as the very best instance as a result of they’re additionally the earliest surviving sources we’ve got from historic Greece. In order that they’re from concerning the eighth or ninth centuries BCE, among the oldest.

In order that they had been developed in a patriarchal society. They had been developed round that point. They won’t have been written down till later as a result of every part comes from an oral storytelling custom. So round that eighth, ninth century, these had been oral tales that had been advised by touring bards. For this reason we predict Homer was in all probability not an actual individual. It was in all probability quite a few touring bards that might journey the Greek world. They might inform these tales, however they’d sing them their songs set to music.

So it’s not even simply poetry, like they’re completely songs set to music, they’d sing them in entrance of a bunch of individuals, night time after night time, issues would change as a result of there have been completely different individuals singing them. So all of them sung concerning the Iliad, all of them sung concerning the wrath of Achilles, however they’d insert issues, change issues, alter, probably primarily based on the place they had been telling the story to whom, all of these items they’d need to like function that area extra closely or there’s all these completely different connections that would make and why these items had been consistently altering as a result of it was solely ever spoken aloud. After which ultimately they had been written down into issues that we’ve got survived right now. In order that they had been each developed and written down in a patriarchal society. Nevertheless,

the teams that existed in the identical areas earlier than and influenced the gods that exist within the Greek mythology that we all know had been, nevertheless lengthy, far again, in all probability 1000 years earlier than, they had been matriarchal in a method, or we predict that they had been, we don’t have writing, however we’ve got plenty of collectible figurines which might be ladies which have breasts and every part. We’ve plenty of those who recommend that they had been usually pretty matriarchal, if not fully, like they had been, they worshiped goddess far more than they did by the point of the works that we’ve got, if that makes any sense within the Bronze Age and earlier, they worshiped ladies much more.

And on their very own there’s plenty of goddesses that had been in all probability developed in that point after which handed right down to change into the goddesses of Greek fantasy, Athena, Aphrodite, Gaia. They initially in all probability had been extra goddess-based after which they only grew to become these lesser characters that they’re within the works that we’ve got. Lots of it’s simply primarily based on archaeology, not textual content, as a result of we don’t have, we don’t have tales from that point. We solely have if we’ve got any writing, it tends to be, like, actually sensible what existed within the palaces on the time.

And so all to say, like, all to say they had been all developed in that world, however additionally they have these leanings of goddesses. And you may really feel the place these goddesses are available. Aphrodite is extremely sturdy. She is extremely sexually transgressive. She will get to do no matter she needs. And she or he’s married, however she doesn’t, she’s not together with her husband very a lot. She has children with a bunch of different individuals. She is a extremely good instance of this goddess that in all probability got here to us via an initially matriarchal society and changed into what we all know of Aphrodite right now. And so there’s lots in there. However in terms of the heterosexual aspect, that’s, for essentially the most half, one thing that happened extra when Christianity took maintain and that we’re nonetheless pulling aside right now. The traditional Greeks weren’t significantly heterosexual, however additionally they weren’t gay in the way in which that we consider it now. They, plenty of completely different city-states, primarily Athens and Sparta, or Sparta was slightly bit completely different. I’m going to speak about it in terms of Athens, as a result of they’d this apply referred to as pederasty, which is tremendous gross.

As a result of what it’s that older males would have a younger man slash boy who they’d mentor, however it was additionally an inherently sexual relationship. And it was, like, it was undoubtedly affection-based and romantic at occasions as properly. They normally had wives as properly. So there’s this actually, they only didn’t think about sexuality like we did. There’s no notion of homosexual, straight, bi, no matter. There’s simply nothing. It’s simply no matter is occurring. They didn’t marry the identical gender or issues like that. However they undoubtedly had sexual relationships. And if ladies did, amongst different ladies, we don’t actually have it clear as a result of they didn’t actually consider it that method.

They in all probability wouldn’t have seen it as intercourse. So it didn’t are available, however it was in all probability taking place lots. However as a result of it wasn’t penetrative, they didn’t see it as intercourse. And so we don’t hear about it. It’s actually attention-grabbing. We do have the poet Sappho from the Island of Lesbos. She is why we’ve got the phrase lesbian as a result of she wrote love songs to ladies. And she or he was a lesbian as a result of she was from the Island of Lesbos. And that’s actually the place the phrase comes from. So there may be that. However she’s a one-off. And lots of people will let you know that her love poem songs weren’t about ladies, that she was writing them for a person to provide to a girl as a result of they prefer to fully erase her sexuality, no matter it

was. It’s actually fascinating. However, yeah, principally, the heterosexuality that we assign to all of that’s undoubtedly Christian slash fashionable. But in addition it’s simply you need to ignore every part you recognize about gender and sexuality. In terms of the traditional world, in an interesting method, I might go on without end.

So I’ll cease myself now.

Meredith: Now, that’s so fascinating. I need to make sure that I’ve it proper. As you’re speaking, I’m nearly picturing a chemistry set. That sounds bizarre. Nevertheless it’s like these historic prototypical myths are, this liquid that then via these completely different lenses of the tradition of the time will get distilled in numerous methods.

So it’s if I find yourself, I believe I’ve the order proper, however appropriate me if I’m mistaken. So Bronze Age, in all probability extra matriarchal, among the Greek goddesses that we all know had been in all probability larger gamers and worshiped a bit greater than it’s into the traditional Greeks, the place there’s not essentially a heterosexual lens, however there’s definitely a patriarchal lens utilized to the mores of the tales. After which we sadly lose a ton of the traditional texts. After which there’s these Bards in additional like darkish, round, did you say round 800 BCE?

Liv: So the Bards are literally like actually early historic Greece. Oh, okay. And yeah. So and I’ll make clear too, it’s in all probability earlier than the Bronze Age, the place it was matriarchal. However the Bronze Age has slightly bit extra of it leftover. However the Bronze Age is the place we first get, like, all the key stuff that we take into consideration. However there isn’t a, or there’s minimal writing that comes from that point. So there’s plenty of completely different durations in historic Greece. The Bronze Age is like 2000 BCE to 1200-ish. After which there’s this massive decline. Lots of people debate plenty of various things about what occurred.

So I received’t attempt to do this. However then there may be like this early Iron Age interval, the place it’s actually transitional. We’re coping with an entire change in writing techniques. So the writing that we’ve got from the Bronze Age there are like components that come into the traditional Greek that we all know now, however it’s fairly completely different. After which that’s when we’ve got this emergence of the oral storytelling custom. So we’re speaking like nearly proper after the Bronze Age. After which there’s the Archaic interval, which comes after that, which is like among the historic Greece that we consider, just like the Persian Wars. That’s just like the sixth, seventh centuries. After which we transfer into the Classical interval, which is what you actually consider. That’s when all of the philosophers are round. That’s when all of the playwrights are round. That’s when Athens goes to battle with Sparta. After which from there, it’s just like the hellenistic interval, which comes after Alexander the Nice and all of this, after which the Roman interval. So principally, like all of that’s patriarchal. Beforehand, there are these goddess collectible figurines that we predict recommend a matriarchal society, a minimum of in some areas.

However yeah, the storytelling is definitely like oral storytelling of the touring bards is just like the earliest writing or tales that we’ve got now. Additionally, I spotted, so the early Iron Age is usually referred to as the Darkish Ages. It’s an excellent problematic time period although, really, as a result of Darkish Ages recommend one thing concerning the individuals when really what it simply means is an absence of sources, which is why we’ve got the Darkish Ages, the time interval I don’t even know, like extra lately, I’m actually unhealthy with every part after BC. Nevertheless it simply refers to an absence of sources, however it suggests one thing concerning the people who finally ends up being dangerous. However in Greece, they name it the Darkish Ages, however it’s really the early Iron Age interval as a result of it’s not darkish. We’ve writing, we’ve got proof, like all these various things clarify it’s not really a Darkish Ages. However individuals do typically name it that also. However yeah, that’s just like the early Darkish Ages. It’s just like the Greek Darkish Ages versus a thousand years later, when there’s one other quote unquote Darkish Ages.

Meredith: In order that is sensible. Sure. So the oral custom is occurring. And that’s taking place earlier than the extra classical period. Is that proper?

Liv: Yeah. Yeah. In order that’s after we acquired just like the Iliad and the Odyssey and a lot extra that we don’t that has been misplaced or by no means written down within the first place. After which the classical interval is the place we get numerous writing as a result of it’s when the philosophers are coming in, they’re writing a lot stuff. Plato wrote method an excessive amount of. He was excessive. After which the playwrights the place we’ve got so lots of their performs surviving and tons of that we all know are lacking. After which there’s additionally like we solely have three surviving tragedians. So writers of tragedy, after we know there have been so many extra, however solely three like work from three of them survive.

After which there are the comedy writers too, of the classical interval. So there’s simply a lot content material from the classical interval. Whereas within the archaic interval, there’s much less and within the early Iron Ages, there’s even much less. So yeah, it’s simply type of the development of that. However one factor that’s actually essential to consider is that every part we have a tendency to speak about in terms of historic Greece from the philosophers to the playwrights to only this common concept of what we consider for the classical interval broadly. And like that type of influences how we see historic Greece usually tends to come back from Athens. Athens was a significant participant in that interval. However they weren’t as massive earlier.

And so they definitely weren’t just like the be all and finish all of historic Greece is simply that’s the place the writing that not solely the writing that survives to us right now tends to come back from, however significantly additionally the writing that folks have been learning for the final 1000 years. And over the previous few many years and centuries, I might say, individuals are beginning to take a look at issues from different areas. However up till this level, we’re actually closely influenced by Athens. So every part comes via this actually sturdy ethnocentric lens that influences what we predict. And so Athens was tremendous patriarchal. Athens, ladies in Athens, their lives sucked. However we will’t say that with certainty about the remainder of Greece. Their lives had been completely different in Sparta, like marginally higher, however principally simply completely different. After which elsewhere, there’s like much more sorts of query marks. So plenty of what we are inclined to say about historic Greece, particularly within the classical interval and archaic too, to an extent, is rather like Athens.

Whereas Athens is a small a part of the bigger Greece, which can also be reminder that historic Greece was not a unified place by any means. They had been all the time preventing with one another. We name them historic Greece now, however it was like a bunch of small states that typically would group up with each other. However finally, they had been all like particular person individuals, particular person like states, and doing their very own factor, writing their very own stuff, having their very own dialects of Greek, like all that. It was actually broadly unfold out. And we simply now put all of it underneath one umbrella of historic Greece.

Meredith: So for the sources that aren’t from Athens of that point, have they all the time been round and simply of much less curiosity? Or had been these different areas simply a lot much less prolific that we’ve got to attempt to surmise issues concerning the tradition versus Athens?

There’s such a physique of labor we will actually dig in. Like why haven’t we centered extra outdoors of Athens but?

Liv: I’m much less sure about that. That’s extra of a query for academia, I believe, and particularly additionally how a lot exists from past Athens. Broadly, as a result of I’m researching Sparta now, I’ve a greater concept of that. And in terms of Sparta, nearly every part we learn about Sparta was really written not by Spartans in any respect. Most of it was by Athenians who had been their enemies. So it’s actually attention-grabbing attempting to piece aside what occurred in Sparta. We’ve writing from a few poets of Sparta, however simply poets. So we’ve got a little bit of poetry, however it doesn’t actually inform us something concerning the society. So I might say it’s in all probability 90% that the work from Athens is what really survived, primarily as a result of Athens was a spot the place they had been extra all in favour of writing issues down for survival.

It wasn’t that they had been smarter or extra attention-grabbing, it’s simply that they had been particularly extra all in favour of issues which might be survivable now. They had been the large place for the tragedies, the performs, and in order that’s what survives from there, that’s the place the philosophers had been. After which simply usually, plenty of it’s not coincidence as a result of you’ll be able to see why, however it isn’t as a result of they had been significantly particular. They had been like a powerhouse, however they’re additionally simply all in favour of stuff that occurs to outlive. But in addition the important thing to all of that is to ensure that one thing to outlive from the traditional world, tons of of various individuals and teams must make acutely aware choices for it to outlive, aside from just a few actually uncommon instances. As a result of the bodily work from, say the Iliad and the Odyssey, the place it was in all probability written down within the seventh century, so like 600 BCE, to ensure that one thing to outlive from that point, it doesn’t simply survive within the kind that existed again then, as a result of for essentially the most half, except it was written all on clay tablets that by some means survived, which is unlikely, these items may have fallen aside.

And so it tends to be like individuals must have copied them for posterity. Lots of that is available in throughout the Byzantine interval the place they’d all these libraries and the Byzantines had been copying plenty of stuff. So we’ve got the Byzantine interval and that space to thank for many of what survives right now. And so like lots over time, so many alternative individuals needed to make these choices to maintain copying these works in order that they survive. So it’s additionally prefer it was as a result of the Athenians wrote down plenty of issues. After which it was as a result of these completely different individuals had been within the Athenians writing. After which subsequent, like tons of of years later, these individuals had been . So it’s only a collection of various people who we’ve got no management over having to have determined that they prefer to preserve a factor apart from actually uncommon issues, however actually attention-grabbing ones. So we all know that there have been a ton of Tragedians writing these Greek tragedies yearly, they’d this massive theater pageant, they usually carried out a bunch of them yearly.

We’ve a bunch, we all know a bunch of names of people that wrote them down, or who created these performs, however we solely have surviving performs from three completely different individuals. East Coast and Sophocles, we’ve got, I believe it’s like between six and 9 performs that survive from every of them that we will learn now. And people received’t survive. And the identical common quantity from Euripides survive as a result of they had been taught in Byzantine faculties. So the Byzantine college system used them to show their college students. And so we’ve got all these copies that had been capable of survive as a result of the Byzantines, who had been in all probability what they had been nearly a thousand years after, if not like near that, as a result of they had been selecting to check these items, they survived for us right now.

Except for Euripides the place he had a bunch of performs the place they weren’t taught in class. In order that they’re the performs that like lots much less individuals cared about, they had been much less in style, individuals in all probability thought they had been unhealthy it’s like every filmmaker or artist inventive now, you’re gonna have works that aren’t perfect, and individuals are not going to recollect them or they’re, and it’s not going to be for good causes. And in your sake, for the opposite playwrights, we don’t know what their work was unhealthy, we don’t know the unhealthy ones as a result of they’re misplaced. By Euripides, we’ve got a bunch that survived as a result of this Byzantine collector had all of Euripides’ performs on these scrolls. And the scrolls every contained I don’t know, a handful, possibly 10 performs in a single scroll. They had been alphabetical. And one in all his scrolls survives. So it’s like English letters H via Okay, I believe or one thing. It’s like just a few completely different letters within the alphabet that this one’s this one scroll survives.

And so we now have I believe it’s like possibly 10 of Euripides’ performs which might be meh, they’re those that folks didn’t love within the historic world. We’re not learning in faculties. They’re simply the random performs on this letter group. And so they’re referred to as the alphabet performs now. And principally, as a result of this one factor managed to outlive, not deliberately, it was random, we’ve got all these performs that we wouldn’t in any other case have. And we’ve got this indication that not every part was good. However that stated, too, we’ve got these performs that weren’t beloved within the historic world, however are like, so fascinating to check now.

So one in all them is Helen, which I’ve coated on the present. And Helen is so attention-grabbing, as a result of it’s this alternate universe of the Trojan Conflict, the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy in any respect, this ghost model of her goes to troy. And as a substitute, she is dropped at Egypt, the place she simply likes dwelling, ready all of it out for all of that point. And we’d not have that play in any other case, as a result of no person cared about it within the historic world. However we’ve got it now. And it’s fascinating and bizarre and funky. And it’s simply fully random, dumb luck that we even have it to learn right now. I’m actually obsessive about the alphabet, if that isn’t apparent.

Meredith: So whenever you had Emily, of the Fuck Boys of Literature on, and that was the primary time that I actually heard about this. And also you had been speaking about the concept there’s actually solely like a handful of the best hits that had been actually preserved and survived. However there are such a lot of different texts from this time that we simply don’t have entry to.

And it actually blew my thoughts. However you speaking concerning the various universe Helen of Troy play, it makes me give it some thought. And in 500 years, individuals are like learning our Netflix cues for all times claims about our tradition. And it’s yeah, these weren’t that good. Nobody was that into them. However we did watch them after dinner typically.

Liv: Yeah, no, there’s simply a lot. And I believe we’ve got this concept that every part from the traditional world is good and engaging and funky. Nevertheless it’s that’s as a result of that’s the stuff that sufficient individuals determined was good and engaging and funky that it exists right now. And right now, we don’t take into consideration that as a result of every part is inherently a lot extra preservable between the web and similar to the standard of books and all these various things, prefer it’s simply so completely different. However again then with the issues that they’d and the writing buildings and the overall custom, which was like, particularly with artwork on this method, the custom was to not write it down.

The custom was to only go sing it to your pals. And so it needed to be actually deliberately written down as a result of there was like a objective behind it. However what’s actually fascinating is how we all know all of the issues that we don’t know, as a result of there’s acquired to be lots that we don’t know existed, however it did, however we’ll by no means know. However there’s lots that we all know existed and it’s misplaced. And that’s simply because different individuals would reference it of their writing and their writing survives.

So any individual can be like, so there’s this poet, there’s these two poets the place they wrote a ton, however not plenty of it survives. Pherecrates is one and Simonides is one other. Pherecrates, I believe is the one I’m considering of the place it’s we all know he wrote a lot mythology, however nearly nothing survives in full. Whereas as a substitute, it’s any individual like, say, Pseudo-Apollodorus was like, Pherecrates wrote this entire story about this and this. However we don’t have it, we all know it existed as a result of apollodorus wrote that it existed. So we like know that he learn it, however we will’t learn it. And I believe really it’d even be Pherecrates, any individual wrote a model of this story the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy, this ghost of her goes. We all know that it wasn’t invented by Euripides. He acquired the concept from an earlier poet, however not a lot of that poet’s work survives. We simply comprehend it existed in any respect.

Meredith: Oh my God. Have you ever seen the play Arcadia by Tom Stoppard? It’s my all time favourite performs and possibly one in all my all time favourite works of literature. And there’s a, one of many fundamental characters in it’s she’s within the 1800s. And she or he’s obsessed and so saddened to the, to distraction by all of those historic texts that had been misplaced and fires and it’s, and really in some methods the play is about like humanity coming to grips with the truth that we are going to lose and overlook issues on a regular basis and we’ve got to love reinvent it consistently.

And this dialog is making me take into consideration that lots.

Liv: Yeah. I take into consideration these items the entire time. Like I’ve a operating record of all of the Euripides performs that I do know existed, however I can’t learn and I’m mad about it on a regular basis. However there’s additionally so many massive query marks about like variations of tales or one factor that’s come up for me lately is there’s this actually well-known fantasy of Cupid and Psyche and everybody thinks of Cupid and Psyche or definitely everybody in my circles. It’s a extremely main story, however the one model we’ve got that tells that story is written by a Roman novelist named Apuleus.

And I believe it’s fairly clear that he made most of it up, however we will’t ensure. There’s no proof that the story of their entire relationship existed in any comparable method within the Greek world. And so we’ve got to imagine that he made it up. But in addition he might have learn one other factor and developed his story primarily based off of that’s misplaced and we’ll by no means know. Or the little bit of the Trojan Conflict the place the Computer virus exists and the place Achilles, will get the arrow via his heel and we get all that, all of that stuff that’s like essentially the most well-known components of the Trojan Conflict. None of that truly exists in an historic Greek supply that survives. It exists in a Roman supply. And we all know that he was basing his work off of Greek sources that survived for him, however don’t survive for us now. So we all know the Computer virus and Achilles’ heel existed in Greek mythology and in Greek historical past, however we don’t even have that bodily work.

Meredith: I don’t need this to be an excessively gimmicky query. However I might hate getting a query like this for the report. However should you solely protect one Greek fantasy for the following millennia are you aware which one it might be?

Liv: Oh, I do know I’ve a solution. I don’t assume it’s like an important reply primarily based on a ton of various components that in all probability ought to be put into such an essential query. However I might simply say the Odyssey as a result of it’s nice. And I like the Odyssey. Yeah. In order that’s my favourite simple go-to. No, Greek fantasy, use a Greek fantasy. So I’m going to say the Odyssey. Yeah. As a result of in any other case, I might have stated Euripides play, however performs are completely different. They don’t rely. It’s tremendous.

Meredith: And with out the Odyssey, you’d by no means have had your VHS mini collection.

Liv: Precisely. Yeah, I might have by no means change into this. It’s nonetheless my favourite Greek epic. Odysseus is my problematic love. He does plenty of unhealthy issues and I like him without end. Yeah, it’s all of the Odyssey for me. I do know we don’t have an excessive amount of time left. And I’ve, I’m sorry, I rant lots.

Meredith: I liked it. And I presume. So I need to discuss slightly bit about Medusa with you. And I do know that it’s one thing that you simply talked a couple of bit. You’ve talked with different visitors and had actually attention-grabbing questions and conversations round. And I additionally know I’m not on Twitter, however I do know you’ve talked about on the podcast that that is one which for you appears to gentle up your Twitter everytime you’re tweeting about Medusa.

And I, I don’t know, I’ve all the time been actually drawn to it for some cause. And I shouldn’t say it for some cause. I believe there’s plenty of advanced issues about ladies’s energy in that fantasy. And it actually hits on some archetypal nerves in plenty of methods. So possibly you might give us a one minute abstract of Medusa. And like, why do you assume it hits such a nerve with of us right now?

Liv: Okay, I’m going to do it actually, it’s going to be fast. And thus I’ll communicate plenty of phrases very quick. So Medusa, oh gosh, there’s a lot. So the earliest type of Medusa is that this man named Hesiod. And he says that she was a Gorgon. He doesn’t describe what a Gorgon was. He says that she’s a Gorgon who was born to Forkis and Keto, who’re like sea monster goddesses or gods and goddesses.

After which he says that she suffered a woeful destiny. She was primarily assaulted by Poseidon and like ultimately Perseus minimize her head off. And in order that’s just like the earliest type of her story, like primarily all of it. After which like a bunch of various issues change, there’s just a few completely different variations of it. However the massive one which will get picked up is Ovid, who’s a Roman creator, he’s writing in all probability a minimum of seven or 800 years after Hesiod wrote that earlier bit.

And Ovid has this entire story the place really she’s this stunning girl and she or he’s a priestess of Athena and Poseidon once more assaults her however in Athena’s temple after which she will get punished by Athena for that her hair turns to snakes and she or he turns individuals to stone. After which once more, Perseus comes and kills her. And so these are just like the fundamentals of it. However what individuals I believe take maintain due to popular culture and so many alternative issues is this concept that she’s this terrifying monster who’s out to harm individuals and deserves demise by Perseus. However none of that truly exists within the Greek fantasy. That was in all probability a minute.

Meredith: No, that’s so just like the bizarre story in that within the telling of it, she’s punished for being assaulted primarily.

Liv: In Ovid. Yeah.

Meredith: Okay. However then prefer it’s there’s this cultural understanding of her as this monster who loves turning individuals to stone.

Liv: Yeah, none of that exists in Greek fantasy and actuality in historic Greek sources. So earlier than Ovid and never Ovid, she just isn’t ever proven as hurting anyone. We don’t know that she turned anyone to stone. We simply know that she might.

Yeah, like we don’t have proof that she ever did it. We simply know that like bodily she might and we actually solely know that as a result of her head afterwards turns issues to stone. However till her head is bodily caught from her physique, she doesn’t really hurt anyone. And Perseus just isn’t despatched to kill her as a result of she’s harmful.

That’s a extremely frequent false impression. Like he’s not despatched there as a result of she’s inflicting hassle or like she’s harming individuals. He’s despatched there as a result of this king of Seriphos needs him useless in order that he can marry Perseus’s mother. And the way in which that he thinks he can kill off Perseus with out angering the mom is to only be like, hey, go get me her head, show that you simply’re a hero, go carry me Medusa’s head. So it’s purely that he wants the top. It’s not like stopping any hurt or saving anyone. Prefer it’s simply completely randomly picked as a result of he, like this king, thinks that it’s going to kill Perseus to get her head.

However yeah, so like this entire concept develops that she’s like individuals on Twitter have advised me by individuals, I imply males, have advised me that like the explanation she needed to be killed is as a result of she was terrorizing the lands and like her demise alleviated a strain on the earth. And it’s all in your head, dude. And I can see your misogyny displaying like what are you speaking about? Nothing about that exists in Greek fantasy. The worst we’ve got is in Ovid the place she is surrounded by statues and the implication is that she turned individuals to stone. However once more, that’s solely an Ovid and he’s already made her a sufferer of assault. Like he already makes her a sympathetic character. So it doesn’t even add something to the argument that she hurts individuals.

Meredith: All proper, possibly it is a good approach to wrap it up is that I like the Greek myths. I’m a really linear thinker. And one factor that I discover advanced about them is I’m like, the place do I begin? Like, how do I, proper now, it usually appears to me like, it’s like attempting to know an eight season TV present by beginning in season 4. So if somebody was like, I actually need a foundational understanding of the who’s who and the essential narrative right here, the place would you set them?

Liv: Oh so the primary factor I inform individuals whenever you’re coming to Greek fantasy is you’ll be able to’t have that viewpoint. If you wish to really perceive it from the traditional world, if you wish to perceive it via a totally fashionable perspective, however lose the entire historic nuance, then you’ll be able to decide up any ebook of Greek myths. I might advocate one written by a girl as a result of we have a tendency to have the ability to push apart plenty of the misogyny. Edith Hamilton is fairly good. It’s very previous. So it does have extra of that.

I wrote one, however it’s very floor degree. So there’s books. However the factor about Greek fantasy is that again to the oral storytelling I discussed, that’s the method that they supposed the tales to be understood. And it was by no means about linearity. It was by no means about narrative construction. It was by no means about principally you need to overlook every part you assume you recognize about what a narrative or a story ought to be. As a result of that was not the intention of any of those. Like they had been advised to similar to share tales round a hearth or to clarify one thing within the pure world or to clarify the significance of sure areas and cities.

Like each space of historic Greece has some story linked them to Heracles as a result of he was just like the hero for all Greece. And they also would all make up their very own tales of how he was linked to their tradition. And infrequently it’s 5 phrases. And that’s like a complete story. As a result of it didn’t, it wasn’t about what we consider as tales. It was concerning the general like objective of what was being shared. So I believe one of the best ways to know it when it comes to the traditional world is to disregard every part you assume you need to learn about tales and to only decide up something actually. However I perceive that that’s troublesome.

So there are like, gods, I don’t know, there’s simply there’s an excessive amount of to know to place it into one simple factor. I believe my present is an efficient reference level as a result of you’ll be able to nearly begin on any episode, so long as it’s not one that claims like half two of three in, within the title. And I’m going to provide you adequate background and stuff. However I believe that the important thing and what I believe makes the way in which I’m coming at these myths, significantly related for the myths themselves, is the way in which that they initially had been meant to be advised, which is that it wasn’t about this construction, it wasn’t about understanding all of it. You can not have in your head a timeline as a result of timelines didn’t exist.

As a result of these tales had been advised over 800 years. Lots adjustments over 800 years. So it’s simply not about, it’s not about dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s as a result of that they didn’t care. It was like 800 years of tradition melded into these tales. And so the way in which I do it’s story primarily based. So you’ll be able to simply click on a narrative you need to hear. But in addition, I give sufficient background and historical past and all these completely different variations and why and every part. So I believe, yeah, I’ve plenty of episodes to take heed to it’s daunting. However I believe that’s a great way to know the way it labored and why as a result of it’s a lot extra attention-grabbing should you perceive the why.

Meredith: All proper. That’s fascinating. Is there a selected episode of yours that you simply play should you simply need to dip your toes and begin right here?

Liv: Let’s say the Theogony, not my first episode, which can also be concerning the Theogony, however I did one final 12 months or the 12 months earlier than the place I went again and I did a way more detailed have a look at the Theogony. And I ought to clarify what the Theogony means. It actually simply means just like the beginning of the gods.

So primarily, it’s just like the origin story of the entire gods. So it introduces a bunch of individuals and the place they arrive from and why and yeah, I don’t know. There’s simply, there’s a lot. There’s an excessive amount of.

Meredith: No, we will discover that Theogony and put it within the present notes for positive. And I might additionally say I like your ebook. So I’ve your ebook. It’s referred to as Greek mythology, the gods goddesses and heroes handbook. Illustrations are beautiful.

I discovered it a useful reference level. I’m undoubtedly like at occasions like, wait, who is that this individual? And so I, for what it’s price, I’d actually advocate that to you. It’s actually been useful and simply so enjoyable to web page via for me.

Liv: Thanks. I believe it’s in all probability, I consider it as being so floor degree and no matter. Additionally, I used to be commissioned to put in writing it. However that’s why I speak about it like that. And I like it to be clear. However yeah, I do assume it in all probability is a extremely good start line as a result of additionally the entire commissioning facet of it from the writer was that they wished a ebook that additionally connects in like the place you may know sure characters from popular culture, which is an efficient approach to get a grip on what you’re studying and what names you may bear in mind or acknowledge and issues like that. So all of that’s within the ebook.

And it does cowl plenty of type of the introductory degree myths and just like the gods and, why you need to be and what their type of main tales had been. So yeah, possibly my ebook is an ideal introduction.

Meredith: All proper thanks a lot, Liv. We’ll hyperlink within the present notes every part you gave us a trillion nice references. We’ll attempt to get in there. And I really feel like I might have picked your mind about these things for hours. You’re such a font of knowledge. Thanks for the way beneficiant you’re along with your information and your expertise.

Liv: Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. I hope I talked sufficient about content material slightly than Greek myths, however I might in all probability speak about Greek myths without end.

Meredith: Thanks.

Liv: Thanks.

Meredith: Okay, everybody, we hope that you simply loved our dialog with Liv as a lot as we did.

Ian: Subsequent week, we’ll be speaking with one other podcaster and YouTuber Caroline Winkler.

Meredith: Caroline has a extremely inventive, fantastic YouTube channel with greater than 400,000 subscribers. We talked to her about what it’s prefer to have a profitable profession on YouTube and her new podcast, Not For Everybody.

To help this present, you’ll be able to charge, evaluate and subscribe. These issues make an enormous distinction. And should you’d like right now’s dialog, you’d in all probability just like the content material individuals publication, subscribe on the hyperlink within the present notes.

Ian: And that’s it of us. Thanks a lot for listening.